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Poster: Eric Geffner Date: Nov 22, 2005 2:03pm
Forum: etree Subject: PROTEST INFORMATION

OK people lets get organized and get our voice heard. Three steps:
1. write a snail mail letter to the band:

Send everything to:
(person's name)
GDP, Inc.
Box X.
Novato, CA 94948.

I was just told by a source to"send the same letter to each band member" as this will have a bigger impact

Must use snail mail, it will have a better impact.

2. Boycott all future releases from the band until this is changed, and mention that in the letter.

3. spread the word, write a form letter and stamped env. and give them to friends, if you have a local scene, like we do in LA with the cover band cubensis, spread the word there as well.


Help me out, spread this email to every dead torrent on other sites and chat rooms lets act!!!!!! not just complain.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 22, 2005 4:47pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

As a Deadhead for over 30 years I am shocked and dismayed by the new policy pulling sbd shows from the live archive. We deadheads have always supported the band through thick and thin. I have personally invested in every album, cd, dvd ever released and have purchased tons of merchandise. Even when a show I already had was released, i have bought it to continue to support the band. This latest move is like a kick in the teeth. i always thought that the best marketing move they ever made was to allow fans access to all the music, it just creates a larger demand for everything Dead related. If it weren't for the tapes that were circulating throughout the years, I am convinced that there would not have been nearly as big a scene as there was at shows, and they would have not made nearly the amount of $$ that they did. Hearing new shows always motivated me and my friends to go on the next tour to hear what they were doing next. I have invested a significant portion of my own money, and time over the last 30 years and never expected anything in return, except for the music. Now that is being taken from us as well.
I will join the protest and send letters to everyone and anyone I can think of to protest this heinous move and will discontinue my financial support of anything GDM and affiliates release, including attending any live shows by Phil & Friends, Rat Dog or any other affiliated venture. I will encourage all Deadheads to unite in this protest!!!



This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2005-11-23 00:47:29

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 22, 2005 8:07pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

sorry, ignore my last post....i'll send the same letter to the GDP address w/each band member's name. Thanks again.

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Poster: Ole Uncle John Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:00pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Count me in. I'll write and call, they've got to know how betrayed we feel.

I recomend another tact as well. PROTEST OUTSIDE RATDOG AND PHIL & FRIENDS SHOWS IN YOUR AREA. There is nothing within driving distance for me but if there was I'd be leading the way.Set pick lines organize some chant for when the bands take the stage.(maybe Money Honey chorus would do)

Be heard, organize, do more than just vent,but DO vent : )

PS: Thankyou Brewster, and volunteers for all you've done for LAMA, it's unfortunate you have to be the proxy for GDP's treachery. PEACE.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 23, 2005 8:17pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Here's my letter, for what it's worth:

To all officials at Grateful Dead Productions and Dead.Net,

I'll be writing a more thorough version of this letter directly to GDP and all band members, but basically you can remove me immediately from your mailing list, as I will never again purchase another item of any kind from your site unless the decision to remove hundreds of soundboard quality shows from the Live Music Archive web site is reversed.

One can only assume that GDP decided too many people were getting "freebies" and wanted to monopolize the "market" for shows by taking them away from that excellent site. Well, nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, songs I found and downloaded from that site actually led to my decision to PURCHASE many GD discs, from vault releases to Dick's Picks, from GD.NET on numerous occasions and would have led me to do so in the future, but no more.

The cynical greedy nature of this horrendous decision flies in the face of what made the Grateful Dead the most successful touring rock band in history--the availability of freely traded live performances. As someone who attended nearly 100 shows from 1979 til the end, I have spent a lot of money and traveled great distances to support my favorite band, and would never have done so if not initially turned on to the live tapes that circulated so freely among Dead Heads.

The Internet now provides a faster, safer, more accessible service to keep that spirit alive and inspire new devotees to again, PURCHASE the many items available through the official Grateful Dead site. I know of no Dead Head who wishes to bankrupt the official site or objected to shows chosen for Dick's Picks being removed from the archive. We only ask that the shows people took the trouble to tape (with the blessing of the band!) and upload to such sites be available in the spirit with which they were from the beginning--as a free expression of the greatest music ever played before live audiences.

This is a terrible business decision GDP has made, and from the web posts i've seen on the archive, I am far from alone in this protest.

Again: You have lost a devoted customer FOREVER unless this decision is reversed.

If a human being wishes to answer this letter in honesty and forthrightness I welcome a response, otherwise, please remove me immediately from your customer base.

This post was modified by grendelschoice on 2005-11-24 04:17:24

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Poster: markpj Date: Nov 23, 2005 8:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

nice job...can i use it myself

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 23, 2005 6:54pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Please feel free to use the content of my letter if you'd like. Thanks for the thumbs up on it. I don't know how much good it will do but on this Turkey Day let's at least give thanks that we all got to experience in person the musical magnificence that was the Grateful Dead, and that the good folks at the archive let us re-live many of those moments and welcome new ones for the time the shows were available.

Sad stuff indeed, but perhaps we should heed to some extent Jerry's own (or Robert's own!) words: "If all you've got live for/Is what you left behind/Get yourself a powder charge/And seal that silver mine."

That being said--send the letters to the powers that be and let's at least go down swinging!

GC

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Poster: dr. flashback Date: Nov 23, 2005 7:40am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Well written, Grendel, as only an English major can!!
From all I've seen and read today, I think our efforts
could really shake their tree.
I'm really bummed because I didn't get around to
downloading your favorite show - 10/28/77 : (((
to complete my 1977 collection.
Wanna trade?
Happy turkey eating,
Dr. Flashback

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 23, 2005 7:00pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Thanks, Dr. F...

*sigh* It's all so sad...seems the GDP folks are thinking a lot about less and less, and forgetting the love we bring...to coin a phrase ;-)

anyway, my fave show is actually 10-29-77, just to be exact (i'm not sure they even played on the 28th) but I would be more than happy to burn you a CD copy and send it your way.

Not sure how we contact folks via the archive but if you want to send a private email address or mailing address my way i'll get right on it. EVERYONE should have a high quality copy of the brilliance that occurred at Evan's Fieldhouse that October night in 1977.

Happy Thanksgiving!
GC

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Poster: dr. flashback Date: Nov 30, 2005 2:13pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Hello Grendel,
And thanks for writing back. Oh, I must have misread your old
post then. Of COURSE I have 11/29/77!! The Estimated>Eyes>
Space>St. Stephen is just over the top!!
All this time I've been thinking, "Geez, how can she think 11/28 is so great when the next night 11/29 is so obviously the standout"??? Ha ha!
Did not get 11/28 from LAMA, may still look for it. Right now busy DLing other SBD's lickety-split (wink, wink) from other places :-))
Wanna know a real funny one? After 2 years of DLing nothing but SBD's from LAMA, my last show DL was the AUD show of
11/8/70!! Kinda ironic and poetic in a strange way. Great show and quality sound, BTW -see my review.
I would really like to trade with you, and also discuss GD related stuff through Email, since LAMA is just overloaded.
I have 1970 through 1977 nearly complete, with a big pile of 1969 as well. Maybe there's something we each got that the other didn't?? Let's trade Emails - but agree to keep them private, cool? I don't want hundreds of people asking me for trades, LOL.
Let me know what shows or years you're needing to fill in. I also have lots of other stuff, ABB, Floyd, Little Feat, Band, Miles Davis and CSNY. Talk to me here - nostradam@earthlink.net. I do miss the old B&P days in a way, you know? Again, your letter was great, better than mine but then I was a music major!
Dr. Flashback

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Poster: jbphburg Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

...very disappointing, to put it mildly.

[moderated]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-23 06:39:09

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Poster: Street Pig Date: Nov 22, 2005 7:54pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

lets get back to trading !

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Poster: jammy Date: Nov 22, 2005 4:21pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

I'm very angry and depressed at this action. I do agree with Dr. Flashback (yet again). I have always bought GD merchandise, clothing, many concert tickets, CD's, DVD's, etc, even though I had the soundboards already. I have supported them in every way and with thousands (actually tens of thousands) of dollars over the years. I will not be purchasing any new items in the foreseeable future, maybe forever. Gotta change my Christmas list now. I will await some official announcement from GDP/GDM, but , alas, fear the corporate statement will only fulfill our expectations.

I want to thank everyone at archive for all they have done to bring us not only music but spoken word, film and all else that is here. You are truly a national (and international) treasure. I have turned on so many people to your site and we all love it. I will continue to come here to enrich and educate myself with all the information available. Thank you, Thank you and Thank you!!!

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 22, 2005 7:57pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Thanks for the mailing info, Eric...That's exactly what I was looking for and will immediately make my outrage known.


One more question--is there an easy way to find individual mailing addresses for the band members?
Thanks...

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Poster: dr. flashback Date: Nov 22, 2005 2:24pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Thank you Eric. I'm a fair person, and I was even accepting of the fact that we were losing a show or two every month to the Download series. But this is too much. Extreme measures beget extreme measures.
Organize all your friends - tell them to call 1-800-225-3323 or
1-800-CAL-DEAD and tell customer service that beginning this Friday. November 25th - there begins a world-wide BOYCOTT of all GDP merchandise from the trading community. I've already Emailed all my Dead-network friends and they are all behind this.
The GDP has severely underestimated how many pissed off people they have created. We are not powerless folks, we CAN make our voice heard. All it takes is a 5 minute free phone call (at least that's still free, LOL).
Rather than get angry or rant at the good folks here at LAMA,
I would urge all of you to put your anger into positive action.
This means NO Christmas sales GDP - are you satisfied now?
Let's go people,
Dr. Flashback

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Poster: jchastain Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:03pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

> This means NO Christmas sales GDP - are you satisfied now?

That's a fine way to thank the band that has allowed us access to soundboards for how many years?

It's a bummer, sure, but GD has been very generous with their music - more so than perhaps any other band.

Why do you like the band? Is it because you could download free soundboards, or because the music they made was appealing to you?

I urge anybody who was considering writing (complaining and threatening) the band to rethink it. How ungrateful do you want to appear to be?

"You better give me free access to your vault...or else!"

Cool.

- Jason

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Poster: dire--wolf Date: Nov 22, 2005 8:37pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

sorry jason, you are totaly out of line. we traded for years and were happy with what we got. the archive produced an easier way to source and trade. what would you preffer, trading by mail and not knowing what you are going to get or downloads? answer should be clear. it's not about free downloads and not paying for shows, i still bought dicks picks and such. THIS IS TOO MUCH!!! ARGH!

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Poster: jchastain Date: Nov 23, 2005 1:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

> sorry jason, you are totaly out of line. we traded for
> years and were happy with what we got. the archive
> produced an easier way to source and trade. what would
> you preffer, trading by mail and not knowing what you
> are going to get or downloads? answer should be clear.
> it's not about free downloads and not paying for shows

I am out of line? Christ.
I am reading that people are upset because they can no longer go to one site, for free, and download whatever soundboards they want. Convenient? Sure. We had it great for a while, but boycotting the band because they want to control access - ON ONE SITE - is rude and probably short-sighted.
Remember, this isn't about making soundboards off limits for trading. Trading is a fun, fantastic way to get new shows. It takes a little longer, and there is the element of the unknown, but it works. It works a lot better if people are fair and honest, but after reading all these posts recently, I'm doubting if the community could still pass this test.
- Jason

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Poster: jcolby Date: Nov 23, 2005 2:03am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

This is all about the greed of the band!!! Jerry would
never have let this happen, it's appalling!!!
It would be nice to be able to respond to the band as
a group. Why would the Archive comply with the request?
Weren't the shows donated by individuals, who were given
the boards by the band?

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Poster: traindoc Date: Nov 23, 2005 2:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

future revenue streams wil not be guaranteed to "the band" by holding all the soundboards in the corporate vault. grateful dead's lifelong message to its community has just been replaced by "we really didn't mean it..."

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Poster: Albix714 Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:35pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Jason, for me it's not about getting stuff for free. If the band decides to pull all the recordings from archive.org, so beit. It is the way they did it. To me, there always seemed to be this unwritten trust between The Dead and it's fans. With this move, hosting no discussion at all, they shot that trust to hell. I've been a head since 1983 and I will always be one. I've never had a problem with GD policy until now.

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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:43pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Exactly...it feels like the last vestige of the spirit of the '60s has died with this move.

I guess it doesn't matter, anyway.

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Poster: jchastain Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:05pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

RE: Boycott

That's a fine way to thank the band that has allowed us access to soundboards for how many years?

It's a bummer, sure, but GD has been very generous with their music - more so than perhaps any other band.

Why do you like the band? Is it because you could download free soundboards, or because the music they made was appealing to you?

I urge anybody who was considering writing (complaining and threatening) the band to rethink it. How ungrateful do you want to appear to be?

"You better give me free access to your vault...or else!"

Cool.

- Jason

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 22, 2005 4:48pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Jason,
The fact is that as deadheads we do feel we have a gentlemen's agreement with the band. They have allowed us access to their music and in return we have supported them in every move they have made. As a group and individually, I doubt you will find a group of fans that has been more generous in their support, both financially and spiritually, than the Deadheads. This band became the #1 concert band in the world for more than a decade because so many deadheads went to so many shows. It is not unusual to have attended more than 200 shows. We have also historically purchased every cd, album, dvd (even if we happen to have the show already) and hundreds of pieces of merchandise to support this group. Most Deadheads always have believed that in return for the access to the music we should blindly support the GD and we have done this in appreciation for that access. This new policy is a kick in the teeth to people like me who have contributed a significant amount of our income and time and emotional support to this band. I believe the outrage is justified, and that since this bond of trust has been betrayed, we have every right to use the only means we have of trying to correct this greedy act of the people that have become rich because of our love and loyalty.

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Poster: jchastain Date: Nov 23, 2005 2:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

> The fact is that as deadheads we do feel we have a
> gentlemen's agreement with the band.

How has this changed? We can still trade.
Access to soundboards was never the deal. The majority of these were not given out by the band, for the fans. These were leaked out, stolen, whatever. Some speculate that Healy was dismissed because he let too many people patch into the soundboard.
There are only a few people that really know what's going on. Perhaps Interet Archive was trying to get some money from the organization to help offset the huge bandwidth that 2500 shows took up? I don't know.

> They have allowed us access to their music and in return
> we have supported them in every move they have made...

Anybody know when the Archive started hosted GD shows? 2 years? That is hardly a long-standing tradition.
Until we know what is really happening, I feel that it is wise to continue to support the band. Or not - that is up to each of us. But that talk of boycotting seems childish.

> As a group and individually, I doubt you will find a
> group of fans that has been more generous in their
> support, both financially and spiritually, than the
> Deadheads.

I totally agree. Let's continue that a little longer until it becomes clear what the new rules are.

> Most Deadheads always have believed that in return for
> the access to the music we should blindly support the GD
> and we have done this in appreciation for that access.

I think that attitude was born out of the band setting up a taping section - for audience recordings. My attitude for supporting the band had NOTHING to do with the Internet Archive hosting shows. The fact that the band was cool with people taping and trading cassettes is what instilled in me the desire to reciprocate.

> This new policy is a kick in the teeth to people like me
> who have contributed a significant amount of our income
> and time and emotional support to this band. I believe
> the outrage is justified, and that since this bond of
> trust has been betrayed...

What new policy? Pulling shows from one site?

> we have every right to use the only means we have of
> trying to correct this greedy act of the people that
> have become rich because of our love and loyalty.

Again, nobody here knows what the motivation is behind the act. In the meantime, it might be time for people to start updating their trade lists and let's get the post office moving!

- Jason


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Poster: TwinD Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:11pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Oh please Jason, no one is asking for access to the vault, we're asking to continue trading and sharing music already in our possession under guidelines the Grateful Dead established over 20 years ago.

The only difference is that twenty-odd years ago it was swapping tape lists and cassettes through the mail. Now we use the internet.

The Grateful Dead organization (I can't bring myself simply to say "The Grateful Dead" have seriously dropped the ball on this one, and to paraphrase one of their crewmember's own words after a run-in with a promoter in Philadelphia in 1973, the Grateful Dead sleep in the beds they make. Well, they made this bed and they can now sleep in it, too. The only difference is that this time, if they so choose, they can back out of it.

Consider me part of the boycott.

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Poster: TwinD Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:21pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

And you're concerned with us appearing ungrateful? For chrissakes, it was Jerry's own daughter who said at her father's Golden Gate Park memorial service that thanks to all of us she didn't have to work at McDonald's to get through school.

The ungrateful party here is the now UNGrateful Dead.

We've supported this band for forty years.

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Poster: jchastain Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:43pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

> Oh please Jason, no one is asking for access to the
vault, we're asking to continue trading and sharing music already in our possession under guidelines the Grateful Dead established over 20 years ago.

I don't recall reading anything that says we can't continue to trade soundboards. I don't even think that P2P has been addressed. I bet the band will come up with a viable (to all parties) solution to getting music to their fans. But, what good will it do to jump all over them when nobody outside of the organization knows what they have in store?

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Poster: tamb Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:48pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: AUSSIEDEADs - we protest

Remember the 23rd day of November, 2005. It really shocked me!!! 40 years (hmmm)?

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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:18pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

It's not a matter of being ungrateful and not supporting the artists. For what it's worth, here is the letter I've emailed to gdstore.com, and will reiterate in a written letter tomorrow:

To Whom it may concern:

I am writing to voice my disappointment about the recent decision to remove Grateful Dead soundboard recordings from the Live Music Archive. While I fully recognize and respect the rights of the artists to do as they choose with their work, I feel this is a mistake on a number of levels. In many cases, I was willing to buy a product because I was able to hear what it sounded like before purchasing it. I have even purchased official versions of shows I already had acquired as free soundboards through the LMA because I had fallen in love with the music and felt an obligation to support the artists. Knowing that the Dead allowed so much free music to circulate in the world made me want to patronize them, and I never hesitated to buy tickets, music, or video releases. Now, I am forced to rethink my feelings.

I should also add that I feel the organization is shooting itself in the foot by alienating its most loyal fan base, and throwing away a marketing tool that has surely brought in countless thousands of dollars to the Grateful Dead.

I hope that you will see that this is a mistake and rethink your position.

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Poster: swedishhead Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:28pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

absolutely - well put! lets all send letters.

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Poster: estimatedeyes77 Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:47pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

I'm behind this protest 100%
Boycott all the way.

Guess my friends will be getting burnt copies of shows for xmas this year. No more dicks picks untill the archive is back online.

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Poster: Eric Geffner Date: Nov 22, 2005 5:09pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Jason, no one, including myself, is saying anything like:
"you better give us free access to the vault"
This issue is much more complex that that simple mentality.
I was totally fine with them pulling off shows and selling them, but this act was much to much. I mean now even our audience tapes are no longer available here in a manner that would allow us to download them as lossy. It is not just the move they made, it is the way it feels, like a corporation screwing people, I do expect more from the dead. Phils wonderful book goes on and on about the imporance of letting people trade their music. After years of doing it one tape at a time, painfully and slowly and with piss poor quality where the tapes are not really all that enjoyable, we had glorious access to soundboards of every show. I am grateful that I had the chance to download every one of them from 66-73 but I wish I had downloaded some from the 80s and 90s, this is a painful move. After you have collected 400 tapes and over 500 gigs maybe you would try and fight for it also.
Everyone is entitled to their view, if you dont like mine that is fine, but at least let me express it to the band and others on this site without you making it sound like I am an entitled jerk.

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Poster: jchastain Date: Nov 23, 2005 2:50am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

> I mean now even our audience tapes are no longer
> available here in a manner that would allow us to
> download them as lossy.

That is unfortunate, for sure. I hope an arrangement can be made that brings back lossless audience recordings, in the very least. If we all asked nicely, maybe those would be brought back. I just got bent out of shape when I started reading about boycotting.

> After you have collected 400 tapes and over 500 gigs
> maybe you would try and fight for it also.

You're assuming that my stance has anything to do with my GD collection? That's silly.

> Everyone is entitled to their view, if you dont like
> mine that is fine, but at least let me express it to the
> band and others on this site without you making it sound
> like I am an entitled jerk.

Boycotts come across that way. In all the letters I've read that people have posted (I'm not sure if I read yours), I haven't read about people asking "please" - the tone seems to be more of an ultimatum.

- Jason

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Poster: Wichita Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Yeah, you can't download audience shows. What's up with that. I have also read that folks are trying to stream shows and can't do that as well.

While the LMA has opened a new world to me, as I have never traded tapes, etc...I have heard Dead shows that I have never heard before. My first show was in 1977 and I have always had trouble getting good shows unitl I was turned onto the LMA.

I would pay a fee to download some of those deleted shows. I only wish the LMA and the Dead could work this out.

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Poster: lostmoon Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

who is the LMA?

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Poster: walthalljp Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

lma = live music archive

The funny thing about all of this is: I found this site after being directed to it from the philzone site looking for a download of one of the soundboard of his shows. Now if that isn't an endorsement of the online trading what is...

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Poster: Wichita Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:40am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Yep. The GD site also has the LMA as a site for their shows. I can only think that Debbie Koons is responsible for this. The GD live is back up. Is that a coincidence or what?

I wonder why we can't download audience shows?

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Poster: traindoc Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Live Music Archive

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Poster: TwinD Date: Nov 23, 2005 11:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Jason you act like this is all one-way. That we are solely at the whims of the Almighty (GDP). That they cast thunder we cover our ears, they cast sunlight, we bask in its warmth.

Well, it's not. It's a relationship. And a relationship is a two-way street that requires compromise and communication. We are getting neither here.

Yes, we got music. And the GD have got to live a lifestyle most people only dream about and they got that lifestyle from us. Yes, they do owe us something for that.

GDP needs to be reminded that this is a relationship and for that, boycott away!

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Poster: jchastain Date: Nov 23, 2005 11:44am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

> Yes, we got music. And the GD have got to live a
> lifestyle most people only dream about and they got that
> lifestyle from us. Yes, they do owe us something for
> that.

The lifestyle they live is something they deserved. They worked hard; harder than most bands. They also did more for the fans that any other band I can think of.
They didn't charge nearly as much for tickets as they could have in the 80s and 90s - that was something nice to do for the fans. They set-up a spot in almost every show for tapers to record their shows - that was something else they did for the fans. They invested countless $1000s into their sound-system that many could argue was for the benefit of the fans. They toured probably a lot more than they wanted to, also for the fans (the last one is arguable).
How is is that you feel like they owe us? Because most of us would go to multiple shows back-to-back? Did we do that to help the band out? Or maybe because we knew that this is exactly where we wanted to be, listening to some fine music with 10,000 close friends - as many nights in a row that we could.
Do they owe us because we continue to purchase official releases? "Aw, I don't want Hundred Year Hall, but I'll buy one to help Phil out."
Do they owe us because they continue to improve their compact discs (HDCD, 5.1, etc.) that they hoped we would buy?
Do they owe us for all the wonderful times we had dancing in the sun?

All this fuss because the band pulled their shows from a single website. They didn't say we had to stop trading. They didn't say that we couldn't still download shows via FTP, BitTorrent or by any other electronic means. The only thing that we know is that the Dead wanted their soundboards pulled from the Internet Archive.

That's a fair relationship - it's no wonder that they might want some time away from us.


- Jason

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Poster: tamb Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:08pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 2005 NOVEMBER 23

REMEMBER THIS DAY!!!

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Poster: Stagger me Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:04pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

So dissapointed. Can we DL from somewhere else? No GDP purchases for now. JG is rolling in grave. RSM

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Poster: Liamfinnegan Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:59pm
Forum: etree Subject: Protest at Phil Show tonight in NJ

I will be at the Phil show tonight.

Let's start a chant after the first song brak and the applause. In the relative silence between the applause and the next song, we will start chanting "Bring Back the soundboards", "Bring back the soundboards". Something like that.

Somehow we have to let Phil know how we feel.

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Poster: TwinD Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Protest at Phil Show tonight in NJ

Wouldn't it make more sense to chant "Bring back the Archive" seeing as the AUDs have been rendered rather useless as they're now stream only?

To me, it's not about SBD or AUD, it's about removing the music.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: AUDs

AUDs have been rendered rather useless

If you are still having problems accessing the streams, please post about it. I gather last night's site glitch was temporary.

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Poster: Hatta Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:41am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: AUDs

You miss his point. Streaming auds are rather useless unless you have a high speed internet connection everywhere you go. Streaming oggs are doubly useless because they're lossy, you're locked into using one format or have to suffer two lossy encoding cycles.

MOST IMPORTANTLY: If these lossy auds get converted to CD and then ripped, the trading pool is contaminated FOREVER. This makes lossy encodes worse than useless.

This is why you need to make the discussion public. You obviously don't understand what's important to the people who use the archive. We'd be screaming just as loud if the GD said "No lossless" instead of "No SBDs", probably louder.

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Poster: TwinD Date: Nov 23, 2005 1:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: AUDs

Hatta has correctly stated my point.

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Poster: swinnies Date: Nov 23, 2005 2:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: AUDs

The real test is if SBD's will be banned from trade on etree and gdlive, and tmnsp ect. this is one site, so i'm just waiting to see what GDP's policy is about trading boards on all the sites....

lets be patient before we fly off the handle. i'm just as upset as everyone else, but all we have to do is learn how to torrent, and everyone will be able to get 2-3 shows/day or so, just not ones of their own choosing...

that's not hard fellas....here are some sites that offer free boards.
http://bt.etree.org/index.php
http://www.shnflac.net/
http://tmnsp.net/
http://www.gdlive.com/

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:30pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

I will definitely protest. I'm still feeling sick over this...

My brother and I have been supporters of the Dead machine for 15 years. I can't even tell you how much I've spent on tickets, dick's picks, etc. through the years, not to mention all the related expenses (travel, postage, etc.)...well, no more...

It's so obvious that Debra is not a Deadhead, in fact it appears that she could care less. She has no clue about the principles on which the community is based...

I really hope that the backlash from this decision is unified and strong. In the meantime, that $100 that my brother and I were planning to spend on Official Dead releases for Christmas is going for something else this year....

[moderated]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-23 07:30:57

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Poster: Peacefuljon Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:34pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

I agree. Is this really all Debra, or is she the scapegoat? Mickey and Bob I'm sure were also behind this. I've seen the dead a couple of hundred times, I've never made a profit from this scene, I shared all I was able to. Yes money was spent, I had the time off my life during those years. Now every once in a while I remember a great moment at a show, The archive had that moment, it was a great gift and I'm thankful for what I was able to download. This is now a great loss of what little freedom is left in the world. Money Money....? Does it all come down to the money.
I miss Jerry, Brent, Pig Pen. Ken Kessey, Neal Cassidy, Freedom....

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:10pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

well put people!! include me in the protest and boycott too. like i said in an earlier post - i have never burned a copy of a commercially released cd in my life - but i will not allow my friends to give one more dime to GD merchandising - free copies of all the Dicks Picks and all commercially released cd's to all my friends who were even thinking of buying one for xmas. not that that will put even a dent in their pockets, but it will sure make me feel better.

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Poster: Eric Geffner Date: Nov 22, 2005 5:18pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

I hope that someone could take the time to write a very nice and clear letter and that people could take the letter on tour and collect signatures to send in to the band.

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Poster: Stagger me Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:01pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Does anybody know where the word came from to pull LMA? Can we still find DLs somewhere else?
Definatly no purchases from GDP. Very dissapointed.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:30pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Re your first question: http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47707